Jeff Standridge:
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Innovation Junkies Podcast. I’m Jeff Standridge.
Jeff Amerine:
Hey, this is Jeff Amerine. It’s great to be back.
Jeff Standridge:
How’s it going?
Jeff Amerine:
You know, I’m feeling pretty good. Pretty excited about what we’re going to talk about. What are we covering today?
Jeff Standridge:
Yeah. You know, um, we, we spent some time talking about strategy in the last few episodes and so for the next few episodes, we’re going to spend some time talking about, you know, sales, sales marketing client, all things client, let’s put it that way sales marketing, client retention, client acquisition, et cetera.
Jeff Amerine:
It sounds good. And I know you’ve, you have had a ton of experience in sales, business development and sales coaching. So, so maybe we ought to do a little exploration around the science of sales. What do you think about that?
Jeff Standridge:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know, I heard a pretty prolific sales trainer and author by the name of Brian Tracy, actually spent some time with Brian Tracy at his headquarters back a few years ago, and he said, you know, we really ought to treat everyone we come in contact as though they have a Post-It note on their forehead with dollar signs stuck to it. And what he wasn’t… What he wasn’t trying to say is that every relationship we have should be transactional. He wasn’t saying that at all, but he was really just making the point that, um, sales is a relationship game and the more strong, authentic relationships that we have, the greater the likelihood that we’re going to have a robust network from which to build a pipeline. And ultimately move to kind of the holy grail of sales where the vast majority of your, of your selling relationships come from existing relationships and referrals from those relationships. And so that’s probably one of the biggest elements of, I think the science that I would, I would like to throw out there is that, you know, you really have to intentionally build strong lasting relationships with people to ever be successful in sales.
Jeff Amerine:
Yeah, no doubt about it. You know, some of the old axioms there are that people like to do business with people they enjoy and appreciate. So if you can’t build that kind of rapport, it’s difficult. And something Guy Kawasaki said almost 20 years ago in the art of the start. Was he said a lot about sales is the, the art and science of figuring out how to get your money out of the consumer or enterprise’s pocket, right? And I’m paraphrasing. But it’s really true. I mean, it’s really true. And if you could do that in an empathetic way where you’re solving a problem or feeling fulfilling an unmet need that they have, there’s nothing unethical about that, that you’re doing them a service by delivering something of value.
Jeff Standridge:
No, that’s right. Uh, know, like and trust is kind of the, the three that, uh, the three sided triangle that we like to talk about. They need to know you and oh, by the way, a referral helps you kind of leapfrog the no, um, and it actually kind of helps leapfrog the trust element as well. Because if, if my, if my friend has referred you and I trust my friend, then there’s a little bit of that trust that rubs off on you just by naturally. And then, you know, on the like side, you know, you’re on your own there. You either make or break yourself there. But you know, there is some science there in that, you know, the logical thinking brain actually is here in what we call the parietal lobe. And the instinctual or the reptilian brain is actually back here in the in the amygdala. And we’ve got to get past the instinctual brain before we can ever get to the logical thinking brain. And that instinctual brain is constantly, it’s constantly making assessments of fear, safety, danger, safety, like, dislike, you know, and it’s constantly making those calculations so to speak, or those gut level instinctual judgments. And we have to make it past that point before we can ever get to the level of having a logical coherent conversation with someone. And so finding a way to actually make those initial connections is not only very psychological, it’s very scientific as well and being able to do that.
Jeff Amerine:
For sure. And I think the fundamental understanding that whether it’s a consumer or an enterprise, they’re typically buying something different than what you think you’re selling.
Jeff Standridge:
Oh, that’s right. Yeah, you know, yeah, that’s exactly right. They don’t buy your product or your service. They buy the outcome that exists or that occurs as a result of that product or service. So they buy they buy a feeling. You know, I always like to say they buy emotionally and then rationalize logically. And so they’re buying how your product or service makes them feel, the outcome it generates, the status it creates. You know, most people our age. when we go buy a new convertible sports car, if we were to go do that, we’re not really buying the convertible sports car. We’re buying the feeling that it makes us experience, that it gives us, we’re buying the image that it portrays or creates. And so one real aspect of sales is number one, to understand what is it that they’re solving for and then help them solve for that, whether that’s. you know, a business problem or an opportunity or an unmet need of some sort.
Jeff Amerine:
Yeah. And additionally, I mean, you can categorize it broadly and sometimes people would argue with these categories, but once upon a time, Permjot Valya, a friend of the company, or a friend from Canada said there’s really only three motives, it’s fear, which if you think about a compliance sale or fear missing out, that’s a big category. Anything that someone buys because they have to buy it because of compliance falls into that category. Sometimes you can categorize it as greed and the greed motive is not so much greed, but… This is something that will give me an opportunity to drive revenues. If you’re talking about an enterprise sale, increase the top line. And then the third one is ego. I’ve sometimes referred to as sex, but let’s just use it ego. This is a, this is a, a PG audience that we’re talking to. And the ego thing is exactly what you referred to. Uh, the, you know, someone of mature age like us buying a convertible or a Porsche, the average age of a Porsche buyer is 57, but you never see someone of that age in their. commercials, right? It’s so it’s brand association with how we want to perceive ourselves or how we felt when we were younger. I think understanding those motives is hugely important in sales process.
Jeff Standridge:
I completely agree with you. You know, and the other thing is that while there’s psychology on the part of the buyer or the, um, uh, prospect, and just as you were talking about understanding those motives, understanding what they’re actually buying, there’s also psychology that it sits in between the ears of the sales person. You know, and, and I tell salespeople all the time that, you know, couple of aspects there is that number one. If you believe in your product and service or products and services, if you believe in the company that you’re representing in the selling of those products and services, if you believe that they really solve a specific and important need or fill an important gap on behalf of your potential future clients, then you have an ethical and a moral obligation to tell them about it. And it doesn’t always have to be. perceived as you’re trying to sell somebody something that they don’t really need. And so the best sales relationship is really a consulting relationship. You know, I like to ask when I’m coaching or doing sales training, I like to ask people, you know, and I show them a picture or actually throw the word up on the screen and it says salesperson. When I say the word salesperson, what do you think of? And invariably, people say used car, life insurance or something like that. And so I flash up a picture then of a guy holding a set of keys. going, hey, just sold you a car buddy. And so that’s salesperson. Then I asked them, consultant, what do you think of? And they think of, you know, smart, intelligent, expert, you know, and I flash up a picture of two guys, you know, in business suits and portfolios and they’re talking, right? And then we move on a little bit further to the right and I say, what about trusted advisor? And they begin to say things like financial planner, lawyer, accountant. Um, you know, uh, business coach, et cetera. And, and so then I flash up a picture, kind of illustrating that. And, and, and then finally, I asked the question, how many of you can name the Academy award winner for best, uh, male actor in a motion picture in 2022 or the year previous, almost never, almost never can anyone actually know that, so what about best female actor? Almost never. Uh, what about best picture? They might get that a little more often. And I say, how many of you can name the name of a teacher or a coach sometime in your academic career who changed your life and without fail, every single hand in the room goes up. And so I move over one more step and say, teacher, you know, that teachers change people’s lives. And so if you can view yourself, not as a salesperson, at worst as a consultant, at even better trusted advisor, but at best as a teacher where you’re helping them learn something about their business, learn something about their needs, learn something about how to, to solve a big problem for them. Then you, you substantiate that relationship and the sales, if you are really solving a challenge for them, it takes care of itself.
Jeff Amerine:
Well, the people that do that best are not transactional. They’re really empathetically concerned with, with doing something that is going to be valuable to that person. They have the relationship with, even if it’s not selling something that they have. I mean, Jay Bear wrote this book, utility some years back, he was famous influencer, really smart on social media. And he said the best brands figure out how to be helpful first. And then by virtue of establishing that brand equity is being helpful, you know, that, that they’re, that they’re trusted and they’re, they’re conveying useful knowledge, the sales will follow. And it’s kind of the same philosophical thing on an individual basis. Try to be helpful. The rest of it will follow.
Jeff Standridge:
That’s right. That’s right. If you sell out of sequence, you will kill the sale every single time. And in a future episode, we’re going to be talking about a selling sequence.
Jeff Amerine:
Sure.
Jeff Standridge:
But if you sell out of sequence, if you are perceived by your prospect as trying to sell them something before you really understand whether or not they have a need for what you have, it’ll kill the sale. It’ll kill the sale every single time. And the second part of psychology between the ears of the salesperson is that, as you know, over the last 35 years studying success, both as individual contributors and as leaders, and certainly salespeople fall into that bucket as well, is the only difference I’ve been able to ascertain between top performing salespeople and average salespeople, they both experience the same degree of perceived call reluctance. In other words, top salespeople and average salespeople can all figure out reasons that they don’t need to make or they don’t have time to make the necessary sales calls, cold calls if you want to call them that. Get out in front of a client, you know, I’ve got to get this proposal out. I’ve got to get these invoices done. I’ve got to do more research and I can find very legitimate reasons why I don’t have time to get out in front of new prospects. Doesn’t matter if you’re a top performer or an average performer. What makes the difference in those average and top performers is that the top performers put it on their calendar. They religiously do it anyway. They set aside time, that is sacred time, and they have a goal every single day, every single week, every single month of the number of people that they’re going to get in front of in an attempt to have, to build a relationship and to have a conversation to uncover those unmet needs that they’re experiencing.
Jeff Amerine:
Yeah, it’s a really good segue to this ideal of sales funnel optimization, right? And we’ve, we’ve heard, we’ve seen the books from Aaron Ross, where he talks about, uh, predictable revenue and from impossible to inevitable. And it’s this whole idea of it’s not just magic and it’s not just art. It really can be a process where you, it’s the law of large numbers of the number
Jeff Standridge:
Mm-hmm.
Jeff Amerine:
of contacts that your sales development reps make and the the sort of lower cost, more junior people are that first echelon of doing the outreach. Somewhere it’s written at least seven contacts before someone in a consultative sale will actually buy something. And so you have to do that SDR work, which is the grind of going through it. With the idea of that next piece would be your business development reps or your closers that can actually do a product demo, or that can get to the point where they’re going the next steps to actually close something, but talk a little bit more about. what your experience has been in sales funnel optimization.
Jeff Standridge:
Yeah, so you have to know what your sales process is, right? You have to have a sales process. And, oh, by the way, and I know we talk about Aaron Ross and sell SDRs and BDRs and closures and what have you. And that’s kind of a luxury in many small businesses to have those different, in some businesses, it’s a sales rep and they have to do everything from soup to nuts, but you gotta know what your sales process is. And generally in a consultative selling process, The sales funnel or the sales process is something like this. There are suspects whom you think could be good potential customers, but they are completely unqualified. You figure out a way to get in front of those and to have qualifying conversations, either offline or online, and they then become qualified prospects. You then engage with those qualified prospects and you have to know what you’re closing for at every step of the selling process. And when you’re engaging with a qualified prospect, you’re not closing for a sale, you’re closing only for the next step in your selling process, which is usually a discovery meeting of some sort, a discovery call, a discovery virtual meeting, or an actual in-person meeting. And I like to start those discovery meetings by saying, I’m not gonna try to sell you anything today. So you don’t have to worry about that. All I wanna do is to see if there is a need that you have that we might be able to help, that we might be able to fill. If not, maybe you walk away with a few recommendations. If so, then we talk about, and you will ultimately decide whether we move to the next step or not. And usually that next step after the discovery meeting is then a proposal to address the issues that were uncovered during the discovery meeting. And so you’re just closing in that discovery meeting for. the right to be able to deliver a proposal. And then in the proposal meeting, you’re presenting that proposal, and it’s at that point that you’re generally closing for an actual deal. And so understanding what that cycle, what that process is, and understanding what your close rate or your conversion rate at each stage will then kind of tell you how many people you have to get in front of at the stage before that. working its way all the way through so that you can get to the end of the ultimate revenue goal that you want to achieve in the first place.
Jeff Amerine:
And understanding that process is the only way to come up with an even somewhat realistic forecast for what sales are going to look like and what your financial growth may be. A lot of times we’ll see the mistakes where people just assume a percentage of market and they really don’t understand how that’s going to happen. They just assume that they’re going to start a sales process and somewhere some magic will happen and sales will occur, but it’s methodical just as you describe and there’s an ask. And each and every step that tells you, are you going to go to the next place? Is this, is it going to transition from a suspect to a prospect, to a qualified prospect, to somebody that you might actually do business with? It’s really important to understand it.
Jeff Standridge:
That’s right. And if you attempt to sell outside of that sales process and you attempt to jump forward prematurely, you’ll kill, you’ll kill the deal every time because you, you literally undermine the trust that you’re building throughout the process. Good stuff.
Jeff Amerine:
Well, how important, when you’ve got that kind of process, how important is the use of technology and supporting it?
Jeff Standridge:
Yeah, you know, I mean, obviously technology can make that process much, much simpler to actually wade through. You know, the process can be onerous in and of itself if you’re trying to use, you know, Google Sheets or Excel spreadsheets. And so having some kind of technology that enables you to reach out to people in mass, because you may need to reach out to 100 people to get meetings with 10. And then you may need to do 10 proposals in order to get the opportunity to actually do business with three. And so understanding your conversion rates and understanding the number of people that you have to get in front of can be made much simpler with the use of technology to facilitate that process, particularly on the early stages of the funnel. Once you get down… to where you’re in proposal stage. Okay, yeah, if you’ve got some technology that can help you build proposals very quickly, that’s great, but you’re kind of one-to-one, human-to-human there, and technology is a little less important in making the process happen. But up here at the early stages of knowing who your suspects are, knowing who your prospects are, having criteria to qualify those prospects, and oh, by the way, if you use any form of inbound lead generation, to drive that process, you just can’t get away from technology. So that’s probably about time for us to land the plane today and just talking about what I would call the science of success around sales or maybe the psychology of success around sales. Next episode, we’re going to come back and we’re going to start delving into marketing. We’re going to talk about the art of influence and persuasion and how that doesn’t just start during the selling process, it starts well before that.
Jeff Amerine:
Sounds great. I can’t wait.
Jeff Standridge:
All right. This has been another episode of the Innovation Junkies Podcast. Thank you for joining.
Jeff Amerine:
See you next time.